“May I ask Janet, what is unfair about a 9.4% pension?”

“You need to get in the real world Janet”

“It sickens me that you people refuse to accept your share of the pain. It sickens me that you expect me to put up with more cuts in services or increased tax to pay for your retirement.

The unions DO NOT fight for the workers, they fight for their members and everyone else can go to hell.

At home today, using up precious holiday (I get much less than the average public sector worker by the way) as the teachers who get so shirty about me taking my kids on holiday during term time can all decide to stay at home themselves.

Sack the lot.”

“@Bristoldjsuk Is being asked to pay 50% more into a pension pot while receiving 50% less as a pension in future fair? Especially when PS workers are being asked to hold off retirement for longer and longer? I think not.”

“Well, that's the cat put firmly among the pigeons, Janet. Your work here is done.”

“@JanetTaylor62 I've had to take a day off work today to look after my two kids because their school is closed and I couldn't get a babysitter. Doesn't seem very fair to me!”

“"Especially when PS workers are being asked to hold off retirement for longer and longer?"

No Janet, not public sector workers. ALL workers. Get it?

What makes you so damned special?”

“@Amrita_Morgan

"@JanetTaylor62 I've had to take a day off work today to look after my two kids because their school is closed and I couldn't get a babysitter. Doesn't seem very fair to me!"

So the school isn't about education - it's a free babysitter? Do I have that right?”

“50% more to get 50% less... That is just aribitary figures plucked out of nowhere (i hope, god forbid that is actually in a union handbook somewhere). Absolute nonsense.

Workers are being asked to hold off longer as wait for it, THEY WILL LIVE LONGER. the retirement age of 65 isn't correct now, let alone in 30-40 years. Annuties are historically calculated on the basis that you will live 15 - 20 years (at most) after 65. However that is not true anymore, nor will it be in 30 - 40 years. Actuarial Mortality tables have been updated as such and pensions/annuities forecasts have been revised to calculate them properly. You do realise that if you were to carry on with the current provisions, you would have no or little money in retirement as the pension pot will simply dry up as people continue to live longer than were expected!”

“So the Government decides on a public holiday for the Royal Wedding but today's strike costs the economy half a billion? Funny that.”

“@Erinaceus "So the school isn't about education - it's a free babysitter? Do I have that right?"

You missed my point. As a single parent I've had to take a day (unpaid) holiday from work to looks after my children today. That's all I'm saying.”

“why do they care so little about vulnerable people Janet? all the operations cancelled today and all I hear about is how they want greedier pensions!”

“I've heard the 50% figures put out and this is a typical polititian tactic.

Let's say I'm earning £100 (a figure used to keep things simple) and I'm paying 4% to my pension. Let's say that I up my pension contribution to 6%. If I want to make things sound worse than what they are, I can say that my contributions have increased 50% (because I was paying 4%, it's gone up to 6%, that's a 50% increase).

Now let's do some other statistic numbers games. Let's say that my employer contributes 8% of my salary to my pension pot and I pay 4%. Wow, I get a figure of 200%, I've got a cracking deal.

Tell you what Janet, lay it on the table, just what do PS workers pay to their pension pot and what does the government (a euphemism for tax payers) pay? Let us see what you are so upset about.”

“what's fair about public sector workers who have accepted lower pay for 30 years, in exchange for their deferred pay on retirement (that's what the pension is), suddenly having that taken away from them when it's too late for them to choose to work in the private sector and build up savings to cover them in old age?”

“Seeing these guys have no concept of how pensions work and are paid, heres the only way that its actually possible for the current pensions to be paid if everyone continues along the same path ie number of years worked / contributions paid in and paid by the government. You CAN all retire as planned and not change the payments etc, but in order for this to be affordable, you will all have to sign up to an agreement to be euthanized at the age of 75. Then the country will be able to afford it. Whats that? Horrible idea? Yes it is. Completely agree. The alternative is much nicer. Accept you are part of a Pension pot that is struggling to cope with people living longer and either put more money in or work longer as everyone in the private sector has realised and has been doing for years (dont even get me started on what Brown did to private sector pensions) without fuss, without strikes just with the realisation that living longer is a good thing but not without consequence. We all have to pay for it.”

“NobbyNood; "The unions DO NOT fight for the workers, they fight for their members and everyone else can go to hell."

Only partially right, unions do, sometimes, fight for their members BUT everyone in the workplace benefits from their, and the members, efforts. When I was at work I belonged to UNISON yet I worked alongside colleagues who were not union members but who received the same pay increases and terms and condition improvements that I, and other union members, received.

I've yet to hear any of my former colleagues turning down an increase on the grounds that they are not union members and have not fought for it.

Employees, private and public sector, are being asked to make cuts, pay more and put up with lower services whilst successive governments give tax payers money away in third world aid, waste billions on failed computer projects and PFI deals, and then have the cheek to blame the other side whilst voting themselves fat increases in salary and expenses.

I doubt that MPs will restrict themselves to a 1% salary increase.

The average man on the street is being asked to sacrifice basic needs and rights to compensate for the inadequacy of our governing body coupled with the greed of a few in our financial institutions.”

“Define 'fair'.”

“a gathering of people to display or trade produce or other goods, to parade or display animals and often to enjoy associated carnival or funfair entertainment.”

“lets not forget that the turn out of people that voted for strike action was very poor!!!!! I wonder just how many public sector workers actually agree with the strikes. I hope the government now live by there threat of slimming down the offer now that the strike has happened. maybew sack them all and let someone do the job who is happy to take whats on offer. we are all sinking and sinking fast WITHOUT holding the UK to ransom, maybe if we ever get out of this mountain of debt then we could fight for a better deal but the TAX payer is broke, the government is broke, sorry public service workers as the former labour guy said, there is no more money left!!!”

“"The unions DO NOT fight for the workers, they fight for their members and everyone else can go to hell."

Some truth in that, BUT, in the end, everyone benefits. When the firemen went on strike, 1977 and 2002, even the scabs got the payrises that were won. Does that seem fair, in your 'real world'?”

“@trucks
Well said.”

“If you judge all ballots by the percentage of those eligible to vote then most, not all, would be worthless as the percentage of those that vote is small even for the important ballots like voting for an MP and, in consequence, the next government.

As an ex union member, now retired, I would agree that I and many of my colleagues do not agree with withdrawal of labour but for the government to move the goalposts when some part of their strategy comes unstuck is immoral and fundamentally wrong. I signed a contract that specified certain benefits for certain actions on my part, one of those was a pension, another was that I would retire when I reached 65. To be told that I would not retire at 65 but would have to work longer, and be given no choice about it, is a breach of my contract with the government and my ex employer.

Bring in new terms and conditions, retirement ages etc by all means but restrict them to new employees and not try to force them on existing employees.

Yes, you could sack them all and give their jobs to someone who is willing to take what is on offer but you can almost guarantee that what is on offer will be inferior to that which went before and you would still have to pay unemployment benefits to those sacked workers.

It is not the employees, public or private, that are holding the country to ransom but the government by their posturing and pretending to be a major player on the worlds' stage and vested interests who are, in the main, foreign owned.

The country is broke, there is little money left in the pot yet the government can still distribute largesse around the world. Successive governments have reduced this country to a third world power in hoc to Europe and the USA where, if people can remember back that far, this recession started with a failure in the corporate greed policy of financial institutions.”

“Janet, despite the bitter comments from the hang-em and flog-em briggade, I agree with you. It is impressive when people feel sufficiently agrieved that they organise to protest in this way.

No, I'm not a public sector worker, I'm not filthy rich, not unemployed. Yes, I pay tax, I was affected by the stikes. I don't necessarily agree with all of the reasons for the strikes but I do support the right of the individual to take the appropriate legal action to stand up for what they consider to be fair.”

“@Amrita_Morgan

"You missed my point. As a single parent I've had to take a day (unpaid) holiday from work to looks after my children today. That's *all* I'm saying."

But that's not ALL you are saying as in your original post you also said:
1. You couldn't get a baysitter. That's a different matter. That's about not having a Plan B.
2. You having to take time off to look after YOUR children didn't seem very fair to you. But you are quite happy for others to look after your kids and for me to pay my taxes to pay for teachers to look after your kids. And there is a tone of resentment in you having to take unpaid time off work, otherwise why are you 'just saying? You are not 'just saying', you are moaning and resentful and therefore critical of the teachers for striking.

Do you care to make your point again?”

“Don't expect my support, as there are many people far worse off than public sector workers. What about those in the private sector who have to work longer and harder for their pensions? or what about all the well educated people who invest £1000s in their future by going to university, only to find they can not get a suitable job? I'm sure many of these people would gladly do one of these public sector jobs, for the job alone with no pension!

Janet, you need to not such a narrow view of things, there are plenty ambitous people out their who would love to have one of these public sector jobs alone. May I suggest if these people in the public secotr are not happy, they should resign and go and try the private sector, that is if they can find a job in it!”

“It's not fair that people who don't get the benefits of a final salary or even career average pension have to pay for the pensions of those who do.

Please can public sector workers contribute to my pension.

Janet if you want me to contribute to your pension, please contribute to mine. Fair's fair after all eh Janet.”

“The reason the average modern day worker has a worse standard of living than the average medieval serf is because you accept it like the sheep you are.

You spend more time and energy bleating about how your undeserving neighbour has it better than you and how much happier you would be if they lost that perk, than actually bringing your sorry existence up to their standard.

How much of your life has been made that little bit worse because those paid to manage have done little more than line their nests and spent the rest on telling you what a spiffing job they've done... and you take it,

and the worst culprit of all is our precious media, you know, the paper that finds one person in a million who is getting £40,000 a year in benefits and convinces you everyone's at it, or the handful of terrorists claiming asylum becomes thousands, it's all designed to draw your attention away from the real criminals and usher in more draconian legislation, taking your standard of living back to the stone age.

Let's not forget the divide between the rich and poor getting wider isn't down to an accounting error, it's down to you accepting that and doing naff all about it, except it seems, complain bitterly at anyone trying to make a stand.”

“by Clair_BradleyWednesday, November 30 2011, 11:56AM
"So the Government decides on a public holiday for the Royal Wedding but today's strike costs the economy half a billion? Funny that." Well said Clair, and whilst we are at it why don't we have a look at the Pension scheme for members of Parliament?. Our brave self sacrificing leaders surely would not ask for us (their troops) to do something that they would not willingly do themselves. Why don't they head towards the sound of the guns, draw their Sabres and lead from the front?”

“Public Sector employees are unfortunately now finding out what it is like for the majority of the working public as public sector jobs, terms and conditions are brought more into line with the rest.



The majority of public sector jobs were for a long time a very tidy little number. This meant that many sought out this form of employment at various carriages of the gravy train......some more towards first class some more towards the postal cart...

Unfortunately the gravy train now only caters to first class passengers...”

“I went on strike and it is the first time I have ever done so and did not take the decision lightly. My reason is I am not prepared to have what I signed up for taken from me, a contract agreed between the Union and my Employers and negotiated amicably over the years. Not any more - enough is enough.
I have put up with a pay freeze and wage rises way below the rate of inflation over the past few years (effectively taking a pay cut in fact if you think about it!). I know no one in my dept who has a gold-plated pension, even top managers. We all pay a fair whack each month ourselves to top up our pensions and pay our taxes too so the jibe of 'us taxpayers propping up your pension' from the anti brigade is a dead end argument.

Instead of ****ging off hard working people (nurses, teachers etc) why are you not asking why is the private sector failing to provide decent pensions and why is a hypocritical government trying to divide people by making trade unionists out to be the baddies? I don't see those in power proposing this offering to take cuts to their personal pensions or salaries!. Why should I be expected to work until I'm nearly 70 and take it lying down?

Yes, I do understand these are hard times and cuts have to be made somewhere, but public sector workers are and always have been an easy target for a right wing government who has no commitment to state provision in the first place. Who set up the National Health Service in the first place? Not the Tories!

The action was supported massively across the country (try reading some reports from outside of the propaganda of a right-wing anti-union press!) Remember too what the Unions fought for in the past which has resulted in the working conditions everyone now enjoys, trade unionist or not - or would you rather still be sending kids up chimneys for 2p an hour! Nuff said!”

“Oh and just to note, for the benefit of those who thought the strikers had a "nice paid day off" we actually DON'T get paid for strike action! We lose a day's pay so that's how committed I was, and my salary is below £17,000 so hardly highly paid!”

“Many people seem to labour under some illusion that the public sector always pays better than private - well, my friend is a qualified Midwife (saving babies and mothers lives on 24 hour shifts sometimes!) and was paid £16,000 by the NHS. Her pension was her bonus to look forward to, plus the commitment she had to her job she loved and trained for over years.
She is now paid DOUBLE her rate as an agency midwife in the private sector but was reluctant to leave the NHS on principle - financial necessity forced the choice.

No we don't have a soft ride in the public sector!”

“Why doesn't someone speak up for the other pensioners of this once great Britain,the down trodden state pension OAP's??
Public sector workers are laughing all the way to the bank,and at the end of the day,what do they manufacture that can be used by the general public,they produce nothing,but make other workers lives a misery,the only good thing that came out of their one day strike,was less chaos on the road at school run time!!”

“@Fuzzhead

Minimum salary for full time Midwife is 20k
http://tinyurl.com/colnxq6

24 hours, OK what ever.

You are clearly ill informed and believe in fairies.”

“Fuzzhead, no one pays more if earning under £ 15,000 and those earning £ 15,000 to £ 21,000 have to contribute an extra 1.5% into their pension (yourself). The government is trying to be as fair as possible and remember hardly anyone in the private sector even has a career average scheme. Also when I had to increase my contributions into my private pension, it didn't matter what I was earning...we all had to pay the extra 2% or accept reduced benefits...”

“I'm lucky enough to be in a final salary scheme, last year because the fund was in danger of being on the point of no return defecit wise, we were given the choice to up our contributions to 9% (an increase of 3%) or change to a stakeholder pension. We decided to the increase and keep the final salary pension. No strikes, no moaning just a realisation of the financial state of this Country and even with paying 3% more, how lucky we are to still have a very good pension scheme.”

“"Public sector workers are laughing all the way to the bank,and at the end of the day,what do they manufacture that can be used by the general public,they produce nothing,but make other workers lives a misery"

Bear that in mind when your house is on fire or you need an ambulanc. D*ckhead.”

“And no-one in the private sector was bleating when the going was good and they were paid shed loads more and had better conditions of service than the public sector. I remember being told when I joined up, "Your wages are c*rap, but you have a good pension". We want what we signed up for. Nothing MORE, nothing less.”

“"Instead of ****ging off hard working people (nurses, teachers etc) why are you not asking why is the private sector failing to provide decent pensions and why is a hypocritical government trying to divide people by making trade unionists out to be the baddies? "

Because that would mean not following the Daily Mail flock of sheep in the Great Race to the Bottom. Baaaaaaaaa.............”

“Exactly, Bluelight - the anti's miss the point that the public sector provides the services they rely on and the pension is some compensation for salaries which aren't always the best, as well as unsociable hours and stressful working conditions for those providing emergency fire/ambulance etc.
And some people had to take a day off to mind their own children because the school was closed - well, inconvenient for you but when my future pension in my old age is at stake forgive me if I can't go boo-hoo poor you!

And BCFCFinker - I should know what my own friend earned as a starting salary as a midwife, thanks! Or are you calling me a liar as well as deluded? Idiot!”

“The next time someone says that I should be gratefull to have a job, I'm going to punch them in the face! I get a tremendous amount of satisfaction in my job, but when I 'phoned up my mortgage company and asked them if I could pay my mortgage with 'Job Satisfaction', they said 'No'.

(Oh, and there's nothing to stop you private sector whiners from joining the public sector, you know. Police, Fire and Ambulance - that sort of thing.....).”

“@bluelight
"The next time someone says that I should be gratefull to have a job, I'm going to punch them in the face!"

You should be grateful to have a job.”

“Do all the public sector workers remember a few years ago Gordon Brown raiding every private pension to prop up the economy. We did not have massive strikes then, we just had to grin and bare it.”

“Massive chuckle at the above...”

“Well, Martin, if maybe you'd all have been in unions, you may have been able to go on strike and stand up for yourselves, rather than bending over when Wee Gordy McBroon was pilfering your pensions. But, no, you all had it too good and didn't worry until it was too late. And as I have said before, if your house was burgled, would you want every house in your street burgled too, just to make it fair? And I'll say it again, nothing to stop you doing what I do. There's nothing to stop you private sector whiners from joining the public sector, you know. Police, Fire and Ambulance - that sort of thing. Or is there?

Baaaaaaaa...............................

John_Name - keep taking the Diazepam.”

“why o p s workers think they should get more than anyone else ?? everyone is in the same boat there is a recession in cases any hasnt noticed no ones pension is worth much now ive put in private pensions and its all been a waste just as well had put it on a horse race and took a chance”

“Let's say you get a choice - poor pay and a defined promised pension, or more pay and you sort out your own pension. You go for the former, pay your contributions, but then they say you have to take less than promised. What would you think if you paid your life insurance premiums for a promised £10,000 policy, but then they come along and say we want more premiums and you can only have £6000. Would you be happy? This is a breach of contract issue.”

“Well I told you to be grateful you had a job, and you're not going to punch me or anyone else in the face, are you, you twit!”

“Are you a policeman, by the way? Because if you are, I really think you need some anger management. People who write aggressive messages on newspaper websites need to be kept away from public interaction, until they learn to control their own behaviour.”

“Just like when Dave say's that 'We're all in this together'. Keep taking the Diazepam, John.

'Kingswoodbabe', I'll explain it clearly. Read this VERY slowly, my Love,

'We don't want MORE than anyone else, (are you keeping up?), we just want what we signed up to'. Very simple, really. (Note the part about not wanting 'More').

And with the DOUBLING of the budget of the Olympic Ceremony, you want to pick my bloody pocket?”

“'We don't want MORE than anyone else, (are you keeping up?), we just want what we signed up to'

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, the problem is that this isn't feasible? Do you understand that? It's simply not possible, you were promised the world by previous governments and it was never sustainable. If you continue with this current package, you will receive NOTHING as the fund will run out of money years before you retire. OR, you will receive a pitiful pension of a few thousand a year, for ten years. This isn't conjecture, it is simply maths (albeit Actuarial) and the fact we are living longer, even more so in 30-40 years as mortalitity continues to decrease.

I don't disagree with what you have been promised, but the angry spittle raising shouting and refusing to compromise is not getting anyone anywhere, and will hurt the public sector in the long run.”

“"And with the DOUBLING of the budget of the Olympic Ceremony, you want to pick my bloody pocket?"

I'll refer you to the above statement, Old Chap. Whilst we have money for sh*te like that, overseas aid, illegal wars, etc, etc, etc, I'll have a clear conscience when I take my pemsion, thanks.”

“"Whilst we have money for sh*te like that" - it's not even in the same league. And i'm not appealing to your conscience, you won't be pulling a pension at all without these reforms. "Overseas aid, illegal wars" etc, oh dear, you're one of those sort of argumental types, i'll leave it there I think as I feel debating rationally may be lost.

And it's not old chap... it's 25 year old chap who already has started his pension savings at a high rate as I realise that we ARE LIVING LONGER!”

“@bluelight

Why do you keep telling me to take diazepam, when you're the one threatening to punch people?

And you didn't answer my question, whether you are a policeman. I suspect you may be since you call yourself 'bluelight'. If so, it is a bit worrying that such an angry and aggressive person is patrolling our streets. Mind you, it's a bit worrying whichever emergency service you work for.”

“I trust my statement above went over your head, John? And don't worry your pretty little head which service I work for - you'll be glad to see me if you ever need me.

Keep taking 'em.”

“"Whilst we have money for sh*te like that" - it's not even in the same league."

FORTYEIGHTBLOODYMILLIONPOUNDS? How long would THAT smalll amount of loose change pay my pension for. Along with quite a few others..........

Tha Daily Mail Flock Of Blind Sheep!! Baaaaaaa........”

“Don't read the daily mail..

You just haven't a clue how government funding operates, nor how pensions work clearly. Just an angry person who can't see rational straight forward facts. The anger directed at foreign aid, "illegal" (?!) wars highlights this.

Run along, I doubt you are even a "blue-lighter" as all the ones I know are nothing like you (and I know a lot of ambo people). This means you're either a copper (which disturbs me) or a fireman (probably).”

“"Run along, I doubt you are even a "blue-lighter" as all the ones I know are nothing like you (and I know a lot of ambo people)."

Do you really? Good for you. Not enough, obviously. Or do you mean The Johnnies?

Explain to me why none of the extra contributions will go in the pension pots, then.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...................”

“@Bristoldjsuk

I wouldn't bother. There's not much point reasoning with violently angry people.”

“@ Lolly60, This is the real world mate, wake up andsmell the coffee.”

“Davetrigger has the right attitude, but I'm amazed at his figure of 9% contributions to a final salary scheme. Police Officers, Firemen and I think Ambulance staff as well have to contribute a minimum of 11% to a maximum of 15% of their salary to the pension. None of it is invested, it simply goes towards paying for current pensioners as per all other public sector pensions. The real problem are the so-called first division senior Whitehall civil servants who get massive gold plated pensions for zero pay deductions.”

“Blimey, Janet, I bet you didn't expect to kick off all this comment?! It just goes to show the division in opinion that is making resolution of disputes so difficult.”

“I've nicked this from Joe at bristol Indy.

If I may quote him/her

"It's like the tories frothing about the public sector strike and the effect this single day would have on the economy - barely a few months after giving the entire public and private sectors the day off to gawp at two toffs getting married more lavishly than we could ever dream of."

Spot on Joe”

“The two toffs are our future King and Queen. On the one hand, in the current climate, it might have been seemly to tone things down a bit. I can understand why people might think that. On the other hand, their marriage was an important public event, except to pigs in pokes, so perhaps it was right to celebrate it after all.

Anyway, Joe at Bristol Indy is exaggerating. The tories did express some concern and regret about the cost to the economy of the strike. But they were hardly frothing at the mouth.”

“Freeloaders. Bring on the Cameron Cuts with haste. Read the story about the council and the treehouse; you get my drift.”