Protesters attack £4.5m spend on bendybus plan

“An update is called for, in the light of new information.

Pigsbeard, your thinking that scrapping BRT would mean the death of the Greater Bristol Metro is misplaced. You have listened too long to Tim Kent and Dr Jon. There are no strings attached to the railway improvements other than Bristol joining a transport authority with its neighbours. Dr Jon thinks this a bad idea, as S Glos will think their fares will go up, whilst ours will go down. I call that a challenge, and look forward to your proof otherwise. I still haven't mentioned a tram - I think doing nothing is best for the BRT2 route, until Portishead has a rail link again, and we can see what is needed.

Membership of Stop BRT2 is still something that I don't know about. I do know, however, that they started an online petition at http://tinyurl.com/989n5ym which has been signed by over 1000 people. I'm not aware of a petition in support.

How much will scrapping BRT2 cost? Nothing. It will save at least £12 million. There is, and never was, £200m for BRT, which I suppose is some consolation. DfT support is a maximum £113m, the four councils have to find the rest, plus the cost of any overruns in costs. It could easily be as financially crippling as the much-vaunted Cambridge BRT. Or as little-used as the Portsmouth BRT.

In the matter of the vehicles themselves, I feel like the prophet Isaiah, come in from the wilderness. No less a figurehead than Dr Jon himself has now told us, in his recent political suicide note, that the vehicles used will not be the shiny articulated low-carb high-quality-ride
alternative fuelled items shown in the glossy brochures at all. They will be slightly longer diesel buses, just what you need for the turn from Sheene Road into West Street, or the sedate trundle through Knowle West and Inns Court (check the map), but with two doors. And no operator yet. Time for the Post to update the picture it always shows with every story. Lose the space-cadet golden bendy with the clever modern bits covering the wheels, as seen above, and instead show a clapped-out no. 36 single decker. The finished product, not that there will ever be one, will look much more like that.

The longer this debate goes on, the more the flaws and cracks show. Hopefully, the planning inspector will kill BRT2 off, then Cllr Kent and Dr Jon can blame him in their letters of resignation, and at least save some face. Or the new mayor will kill it off and face the wrath, but I think when people are able to see the full truth behind this most flawed of all schemes, they will realise that it was the best thing to do.

The worst thing to do would be to carry on building it. Then, when it opened in about 2018, in competition with a 17-minute morning commute from Portishead to the Enterprise Zone, everyone would be blaming everybody else, calling each other coconuts, and wasting even more of our cash into why it all went wrong and whose fault it was.”

“Katachua,

Thank you indeed for your support, although I know I am not the only one in Bristol who holds a dim view of the stupid £50 million BRT2 route. All but one of the mayoral candidates agree with us both, at least in part, and two want the whole scheme stopped in its crumbling concrete tracks before we throw any more good money after it. I wouldn't go quite that far - I would concentrate on opening BRT1 as cheaply as possible to Temple Meads and the Centre, and getting the railway to Portishead up and running ASAP.

There is, of course, no prospect of seeing the Narnia eco-friendly bus, whose rapidly aging computer generated image adorns the front page of the Travel+ website on BRT, so I would do what I could with what is available. There is a bus lane from Bristol Parkway to the M32, and from the end of that to the Centre, that has never had a scheduled bus service along it, so why not start a new route from S Glos via that, and see if it helps?

I would also want a transport hub at Temple Meads, ready for action in 2016 when the electric trains are likely to start. I wouldn't be too worried about getting office staff to the Centre, because there is a new Enterprise Zone next to Temple Meads, and office buildings in the Centre are increasingly being used for painting on.

With all this done - could be by summer 2013 - I would ask for a new study, not from scratch, but to evaluate any change to the case for the rest of the route in the light of these changes. If I found, for example, that a significant number of people wanted to travel from Emersons Green to Hengrove or vice versa every day, then I may develop that part of the route too.

I wondered why Pigsbeard hadn't come round to the sensible point of view that I was persuaded to, but I suppose Cllr Tim Kent didn't either, so there must be two of them.

Or is there???

As for the excellent arguments, I'm flattered, but I haven't really started yet. I'm keeping my most powerful ones for when they are needed. For the moment, I'm sticking to the bleedin' obvious, for Pigsbeard's sake.”

“Lets have a rapid rail service for those stations that were closed or the track used as useless cycle paths. More buses don't solve the congestion problem.”

“@Brizz_Tony

You're wasting your time on posting those excellent arguments.

Pipsbeard is fanatically anti-rail (or a least fanatically anti-Pip Sheard) and is immune to any argument, however convincing. Maybe you should ask him precisely what his grievance is. I have, but have failed to get a sensible answer.”

“Pipsbeard,

We are not likely to ever agree on this, at least not until you actually visit the Harbourside. You will find a lot of people, visiting the magnificent new M Shed, eating or drinking, riding the Harbour railway or a boat, or just generally enjoying the view from a walk along somewhere without traffic hurtling by. Or go along during the Harbour Festival next summer, and ask any of the 300,000 you see there whether they think of it as a "clapped out builders yard". Or you will find that that people live there, in waterfront apartments built before there was any suggestion of having buses that the Council at least claim will be rapid.

There are plans to build 625 more homes, 80% of them unaffordable, on the old coal yard (current car park), linking Southville to the Harbourside via a "new stepped and ramped public route, called Gaol Ferry Steps", with new retail outlets and public open spaces, all with "a gritty dockside character" to quote the blurb - http://tinyurl.com/9yjx4em is where I got this information from, rather than my own fevered imagination.

Doubtless, the new apartments will be marketed as "Enjoying an exclusive quiet dockside location with bars cafes and shops within easy walking distance" rather than "Having good views of 60 bendy buses an hour thundering rapidly past your front window", but that's advertising for you. OK, the truth is likely to be 20 double-decker First Bus services crawling past, on their way to get stuck in Bedminster, but if the council told you that, there would be no justification for the stupid £50 million BRT2 route, would there?

As to membership of Transport for Greater Bristol Alliance, or Stop BRT2, or the Green Party, who are amongst the organisations opposed to this wanton act of civic vandalism, you will have to ask them. I am not a member of any of them, don't know anyone who is, and don't live on the route of the BRT. I do share their view of this ridiculous scheme, however.

Whilst it isn't a scene of natural beauty to rival Exmoor or the Yorkshire Dales, the Chocolate Path along the New Cut is enjoyed by many walkers and cyclists. Others, myself amongst them, enjoy tracing Bristol's past by looking at such relics that escaped the previous attentions of the Luftwaffe and Bristol City Council, only one of whom always had a clear idea of what they were doing. The New Cut has a part to play in that discovery. And if it was the ugly, forlorn scene of dereliction that you think it is, would the art community have moved to Spike Island?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, my friend. You need Optrex. So does Bristol City Council, who should, as a body, look carefully into this decision by the Cabinet / politburo.”

“by Brizz_Tony

Saturday, October 06 2012, 1:12PM
.
"Pipsbeard,

You haven't read my posts where I said BRT1 was not a bad idea, because of the lack of a rail route from the north eastern fringes. BRT2 is a shocking idea. This current council have binned nearly 20 years work on decent proposals, and are now trying to hold a gun to our heads so they can wreck the Harbourside, and blame someone else when it all goes wrong. BRT3 is just a new road and a bus lane, like the other £80 million worth of bus lanes which the council are now starting to dismantle. They've fooled you.

As you mention tram, and the time to build it, had it not been binned in 2008, we would be riding on it now. Cambridge's BRT came in over 2 years late, Bristol's has already slipped 7 months before anyone has even picked up a shovel. Your first sight of a London-reject bendy bus trying to squeeze over Prince Street bridge during the Harbour Festival before making its way to try to turn into West Street in Bedminster may not be until 2018."

Brizz_Tony, I've read all your posts about BRT.

Firstly the Harbourside, what a total joke "wreck the Harbourside"? Wreck what? It looks like a clapped out builders yard, what is all this nonsense about "heritage" argued by the rose=tinted rail lobby? The New Cut is not a place of beauty, anyone who thinks so needs to take a rapid trip to the local opticians (ideally on a bus), I'll qualify that and say its a matter of opinion. You and your chums (all 30 of them) clearly think it is, I don't and my opinion is no less valid than yours. It certainly isn't the place I'd aim for to spend any leisure time. Do I think a bus going along the proposed route is any more ugly than a train or a tram, err no and I bet a huge number of Bristolians couldn't give a flying fig. It's only the tiny, non-representative Transport for Greater Bristol Alliance, who do, once again I ask the never answered question, how many members do they have and who do they represent?

On the subject of Prince Street Bridge and bendy buses, why halt an entire project for one weekend a year? The Harbour Festival argument is just about the weakest possible reason for not doing something that anyone can think of, is that the best you can do? Since when has Prince Street been a direct turn into West Street?

You say that the council has binned 20 years of work, work by whom? The council or businesses and pressure groups with a vested interest in promoting trams? Which is it?

At least you recognise that not all parts of Bristol are covered by rail, that is something but to rubbish the clear improvements to bus travel accross the city undermines the rest of your arguments. Your opposition to BRT and bus lanes which you also rubbish is rooted in ideology rather than sound argument.”

“Pipsbeard,

You haven't read my posts where I said BRT1 was not a bad idea, because of the lack of a rail route from the north eastern fringes. BRT2 is a shocking idea. This current council have binned nearly 20 years work on decent proposals, and are now trying to hold a gun to our heads so they can wreck the Harbourside, and blame someone else when it all goes wrong. BRT3 is just a new road and a bus lane, like the other £80 million worth of bus lanes which the council are now starting to dismantle. They've fooled you.

As you mention tram, and the time to build it, had it not been binned in 2008, we would be riding on it now. Cambridge's BRT came in over 2 years late, Bristol's has already slipped 7 months before anyone has even picked up a shovel. Your first sight of a London-reject bendy bus trying to squeeze over Prince Street bridge during the Harbour Festival before making its way to try to turn into West Street in Bedminster may not be until 2018.”

“Clearly people haven't read the reasons for this spend. Read it again, Bristol could lose out altogether if things are delayed at this stage in the process.
Marvin Rees is behind the idea we think?”

“Oh look - Yet ANOTHER Tim Kent total disaster, you couldn't make it up with this incompetent oaf!”

“To Brizz_Tony

"Mr Kent said that if the BRT routes failed to go ahead, other transport schemes such as the Bristol Metro rail improvements may also be sidelined, adding: "How many times do people in Bristol want to rip up a project at the last minute when funding is in place?"

I see none of the train and tram fanatics have challenged this eh Brizz_Tony? You and your chums are playing a high risk game aren't you? It seems that the franchising exercise for the railways will be delayed now because of the West Coast disaster. If Kent's view is right all that money apparently promised for the local railways might not come this way and a 12 month delay in deciding who runs Bristol's railways might see a desperate government looking to save even more money. Have the mighty Transport for Greater Bristol Alliance considered that little chestnut? Once again Bristol will be labled as the place where nothing gets done and it will be l due in no small part to a tiny organisation who represent no-one but their own narrow interests, namely Transport for Greater Bristol Alliance. Once again I ask how many members does the organisation have?

The trouble is they have a very narrow view of the world, the vast majority of Bristolians want to have some choices, and yes trains should be one of them. However there are huge areas of Bristol that are not and never will be served by trains, an alternative has to be found, so why not the rapid transit system? Perhaps you and your chums could lobby to have the old rail lines that are now cycle tracks brought back into use for either trains or trams, then we'll see how serious you are about improving Bristol's transport problems won't we? Why don't you put up a candidate at the election for the mayor. If BRT is aborted now as the train and tram lobby want, what will be the cost to the council tax payers of Bristol when the other councils want their money back? No doubt you'll all be lining up behind any candidate who wants to ditch BRT, but if you, do ask them if they have considered the cost to the people of Bristol who will finish up with nothing at all and a bill to go with it.

How long would it take to deliver a tram project to cover the same routes as BRT? What would the cost be? Transport for Greater Bristol Alliance delights in telling what experts they are, so come on estimate the cost of something that might get delivered in 5-10 years time if you were starting out today. Meanwhile Bristol grinds to a total halt. People are critical of the cost of BRT but do they really think that a tram would be cheaper to get to the stage of building the damned thing?”