“The site was inspected last night. By councillors led by one who cannot tell the difference between an electric and a diesel train. Remember this depot is to maintain DIESEL trains that have an electric capability. Anyone who wants to hear what such a depot sounds like at night, take a trip to the industrial units in the St. Philips Marsh area between 0200 and 0500. Agility Trains told us at the IEP seminar that diesel engines would be used to move the trains around the depot. The diesel engines will , by law, have to be tested at regular intervals to make sure they operate all the on board systems and this entails high revs running for periods of 5-7 minutes, per coach, to test compressor efficiency. People for a considerable distance around WILL be affected by this, no matter what Agility Trains say this noise cannot be tolerated within 100 yards without very good ear protection. Anyone living within 1 mile in summer, forget sleeping with windows open. The argument is being hijacked by people with little or no knowledge of railway operation and the nature of the trains being built. It is frankly laughable that a so-called transport orientated councillor responsible for guiding planning decisions has been so taken in by not being able to tell the difference between an electric train depot, and the one proposed at Stoke Gifford. The diesel fuel storage facility would be a bit of a giveaway one would have thought! This is not Nimbyism as some have tried to portray it, it is pointing out that in order to get this stupid, foreign built train into service with minimum fuss, Agility Trains and Hitachi, have had to lie to councillors and residents in the hope they would not realise that these trains are not nice quiet pure electrics, they have very noisy diesels under 60% of the coaches, that's three in each 5 coach set. Anyone who has been in a platform at Temple Meads when a Cross Country Voyager train runs in with engines at normal revs knows how loud such trains are. Well they use the same engines as the ones going under these Agility Trains. Won't affect me, I'll be retired and away, but people living nearby will be, and those losing their jobs and apprenticeships at other locations around the UK and in Bristol will be.
Won't matter to those councillors pushing this decision, I'm sure they will get their "reward" in some fashion. Cheaper, UK built alternatives are available that do not use noisy and expensive to maintain and run diesel engines are available. If this was a purely electric train depot I would have no objection whatsoever, but it isn't. Remember if it is built residents can still mount legal challenges that can limit it's hours of operation in the event of noise affecting their quality of life. Even long standing facilities have to comply with such laws. Depots in Plymouth, Manchester, Glasgow and Derby had to limit activities due to overnight noise. It has no bearing which property was there first. Environmental Protection Officers take industrial noise pollution very seriously, especially when it disturbs sleep.”

“@stagnate
With the greatest of respect perhaps you need to get your eyes tested, and also look at the plans online. Then you would clearly see that the proposed site will be visible to local residents.

Have you been to any of the public meetings? Also just incase you were not aware the site is in the planning stage at the moment so noise and pollution is not a issue yet.

If you are having trouble understanding the site layout, look online and find out more information.”

“I went past this site by rail on Saturday and was quite surprised that the houses allegedly affected by noise and pollution are actually below the level of the existing London/South Wales railway line.

From the various comments and objections posted on this and other news items relating to this new facility I gained the impression, erroneously as it happens, that the facility would be visible from residents houses.

We have already to travel a considerable distance to get from Bristol Temple Meads to the city centre thanks to the 19th century nimbys of the Merchant Venturers and it appears that the 21st century nimbys are again attempting to define what is and is not built near to their houses.

It's railway land and there is already a large railway facility and station in the immediate area so get on and build it.”

“As of today it has been announced that the decision on these new trains has been put back 4 months to May 2012 as the Govt. is looking at the proposed (more sensible) alternatives.”

“Oh and Bomberman, I AM a professional when it comes to such things. A person who writes local interest stories of a non-technical nature about trains may have a bit more knowledge than the average man in the street, He does not know about compresor efficiency testing, engine and alternator systems testing, FOL intercepts, and a thousand other things to.
The union man has to be there as part of the consultation process. They are also being made aware of the threat to jobs nationally as well as in Bristol

No I am not a NIMBY, not near my house, but I know what noise will be caused.”

“Christian Wolmar, national railway correspondent and regular on BBC News, Rail Magazine and Independent writer says,

"The good news is that the Department of Transport is on the case. Last month Philip Hammond, the Secretary of State for Transport, confirmed that he was proceeding with the Intercity Express Project with, initially, an order 500 new coaches to be built by Hitachi to replace the ageing HSTs. More will follow. The innovatory bit of the project is that most of these new trains will be bi-mode – in other words, they will be capable of being powered by electricity or the huge onboard diesel engines.

The bad news is that nobody – and I have talked to dozens of people and so to repeat, nobody – in the rail industry thinks this is a sensible or workable idea except, of course, Hitachi, and a couple of civil servants in the Department. The idea was presented as a clever solution to deal with the fact that the UK has a lower proportion of electrified railways than any major country in Europe. So once the wires run out, at say Edinburgh or, as planned, Cardiff, the train will proceed using its powerful diesel engines.

There are far too many obvious objections to this cunning plan to list here. Suffice to say, it is expensive and environmentally perverse to be carrying around three heavy diesel engines each five car train set weighing 20 tonnes each for use on only small sections of the journey. The alternative of having diesel locomotives waiting at the changeover point, a common solution on railways across the world, was dismissed on the spurious grounds that it would take nine minutes to hook them up, whereas in truth it could be done in two or three. Moreover, as travellers on the uncomfortable Voyager trains used on Arriva's Crosscountry services know only too well, having big diesel engines humming loudly underneath the floor does not make for a relaxed journey.

To call the plan a dog's breakfast is to insult the makers of Pedigree Chum. This is a king size government procurement disaster, on a scale with the London Underground PPP or the PFI deals for hospitals, that will not only place an enormous burden on Britain's taxpayers and rail passengers but make train travel less pleasant right up to the halfway mark of the present century. Europeans will laugh, again, at our incompetence. Oh, and yes, it is a PFI deal. In other words, the trains will be paid for by the hour, which supposedly puts the responsibility for maintenance and breakdowns on the manufacturers but we all know that these arrangements end up being far more expensive than conventional deals.

Not surprisingly, a review by the former head of the Audit Commission, Sir Andrew Foster, found the whole exercise had been conducted with stunning incompetence by the Department, but his findings were ignored by ministers."

Since that was written more details have leaked out and not one, not a single railway operator or engineer thinks these bi-mode trains are a good idea. They are an appalling idea that will cost taxpayers and fare payers a fortune. The maintenance costs will be very high with 60 percent of coaches powered by underfloor diesels. Fuel costs will be high because they will be much heavier than rival pure electric designs. They will cost Bristol 300 jobs directly, nationally at least 1400 as Bombardier in Derby cannot hope to compete with low paid semi-skilled workers putting together "flat pack" Japanese trains near Durham. Bristol and the rest of the UK is being well and truly shafted. You have been warned.”

“I have received notification that there will be a site visit by councillors on 20th January at 10 am. Time will be allocated for the councillors to hear arguments for or against the planning proposal. This opportunity should be taken.”

“Interesting to note that Gary Abbott (Rail union) and Dave Wood ( E/Post Rail columnist) both support the benefits of this facility being sited in the Stoke Gifford / Filton triangle.

Grahameight I really cannot understand why you and other nimby`s are so negative towards this proposal especially when it is supported by the rail union and other experts who have a proffesional understanding of the benefits of this proposal.”

“Bomberman are you a rail engineer? Have you any idea what a nonsense you are spouting? These ridiculous over expensive trains will cost way above what they should? Hitachi are building these trains in Japan and have taken advantage of technically illiterate civil servants to win preferred bidder status. It has ****** all to do with Nimbyism and everything to do with the future of the rail network as a whole. These things will cost more to buy and far more to operate than a UK sourced alternative. Staff at St. Philips Marsh will not be able to transfer because Agility Trains are offering salaries way below the norm. Apprenticeships? Rubbish. There are apprentices at St. Philips Marsh but this project threatens their futures. Because the IEP project has been so badly managed it has cost £30m to date with not a single order placed. We are talking about thousands of UK jobs being exported to Japan in exchange for a few hundred semi-skilled jobs in Durham. The net cost to the rail network could well see lines shut as well as factories and supply chains shut. Each 5 car set will cost in excess of £100,000 per month more in leasing, track access and operating costs than the pure electric, mostly UK built competition. If the depot was being built to maintain these it would not be so bad, but a depot already exists and there is no need to waste money on another facility. Why have Agility Trains lied about the type of trains going to this new facility? Why try to hide the fact they will have noisy diesel engines under them? Why take a local councillor to an electric only depot in Kent when there is a more representative one just a few miles away? It's a total con!
This country needs all the skilled engineering jobs it can get and Hitachi/Agility Trains have used this as a smokescreen to get grants to build a "flat pack" assembly facility in the North East. In reality it will destroy what centres of excellence we still have in Derby, Stafford, Crewe and yes Bristol in return for a few semi-skilled posts. There are indications that the Treasury is seeing through the argument by Hitachi, especially given their stance on new PFI contracts and the furore over fare rises. We can but hope this train idea is scrapped and a proper pure electric train with a high UK content procured in a much less expensive fashion.”

“Grahameight (Hooper) and Filtoninsider - Ernie Bevin - You are all so negative but this does seem to be the cry of all you loonies that claim that you want jobs protected, created and brought to the area but when somebody suggests putting any sort of investment in that will provide jobs and engineering apprenticeships to this area you shout "NOT IN MY BACK YARD"

This sort of Nimbyism is what will undoubtably cause a further decline and downfall of the local economy in the area.
If as you claim jobs will be put at risk at St.Phillips Marsh I am sure that those employed at St Phillips Marsh will have the option to work at the Filton / Stoke Gifford site and that this will not mean that employees will be made redundant.

Filtoninsider - Ernie Bevin you appear to be using this proposed development as a way of launching a personal attack on a local South Gloucestershire councillor which again seems to suggest a typically negative and totally irrelevent political attack on a councillor and why are you also launching an attack on the local M.P. Jack Lopresti ?
I suspect that you are a bunch of serial complainers and that now you will also launch an attack on me as well.”