Brian May heads Bristol Stop the Cull rally

“The licensed killing of badgers in parts of Gloucestershire and Somerset could achieve a number of things. It could further advertise the unwelcome existence of bovine tuberculosis in British dairy herds. It could polarise opinion in the countryside and unite political opposition everywhere else. It could cost the farmers involved more than they could gain. It will almost certainly provoke active protest and put even more pressure on already hard-pressed police forces.

What it will almost certainly not do is limit bovine tuberculosis, even in the target zones of Gloucestershire and Somerset. It might be helpful to list those things that are certain. Human tuberculosis is a dangerous disease. Bovine tuberculosis is a real problem for dairy farmers – who in any case have been paid too little for their milk and who have been going out of business for decades – and the disease lives on in the wild badger population. But by 1996, a policy of identification and slaughter had reduced the incidence of bovine TB in dairy herds in England and Wales to less than half a per cent, and the risk of direct transmission to humans has – with the pasteurisation of milk – long ago become negligible. The last and most systematic examination of the link between badgers and bovine TB found that, indeed, there was transmission, and proposed a series of systematic, randomised controlled trials over a sustained period to see whether culling could provide an answer. In 2003, the government, farmers, public health officers and wildlife campaigners got the answer: shooting and gassing did not eliminate, and could possibly spread, the disease. That may be because badgers disturbed in one area could migrate, taking the infection with them. The answer, delivered by Lord Krebs and the distinguished statisticians and zoologists who examined the results, could hardly be clearer: killing will not solve the problem. Lord Krebs's scientific credentials are not in doubt. He was trusted by successive British governments to head the Natural Environment Research Council, and to chair the Food Standards Agency. And he has just described the latest plan as a "crazy scheme".

http://tinyurl.com/bvjp9rv”

“@dais9ma9ie

Like this do you mean? . . First things first.

http://tinyurl.com/7jhpp6h (open in a new window)”

“WFU Report. Tier Two.

(Womens' Food and Farming Union)

Bovine Tuberculosis (TB) is an infectious, bacterial disease, which affects cattle and badgers. TB can lie dormant but ultimately results in a slow, unpleasant death. It causes abscesses on the lungs, liver, spleen, kidneys and lymph nodes and can affect any organ in the body. Infected cattle are culled before the disease is advanced, but TB causes great suffering and distress to badgers in the final stages. It has been found in horses, deer, pigs, wild boar, sheep, llamas, and alpacas, a dog and in recent years 100 cats. Bovine TB can pass to humans who have close contact with infected animals. It is rare but this could change.

Do badgers spread bovine TB to cattle? Unfortunately, yes. Badgers form a reservoir(2) (source) of bovine TB. As infected Badgers are not controlled they remain free to spread the infection to cattle, other healthy badgers and occasionally, domestic pets. It is impossible to eradicate TB in cattle without eradicating the disease in badgers. In New Zealand bTB was reduced by 90% in ten years by culling possums, and Australia eradicated the disease by culling water buffalo. In Ireland's "Four Area Trial" culling badgers reduced TB in cattle by 60 - 90%. The UK has the highest incidence of bTB in Europe and the developed world.

Bovine TB causes distress to livestock farmers who live in fear of the result before each routine TB test and when there is a TB breakdown, some become depressed (3), or even suicidal. When a herd is diagnosed with TB, the cattle have to be slaughtered, sometimes healthy animals have to be destroyed, cattle cannot be moved to other farms or to market and this causes management problems which can last for years.

Bovine TB costs the Government and Farmers a great deal of money. In 2009 the total cost to the Government was £108 million; £63 million for testing and slaughtering cattle. Exeter University Centre for Rural Research estimated that the uncompensated cost to individual farmers was £25,000.”

“History of bovine (cattle) TB in the UK

Prior to 1935 up to 40% of cattle were infected with bovine TB, humans were at risk, and as many as 3,000 people died each year. An intradermal skin test for TB in cattle was introduced in order to clear TB infection to protect human health and improve animal welfare. The skin was injected with a TB extract, if the injection site became inflamed and swollen the animal was 'positive', showing it had had contact with bTB and that animal was slaughtered in an effort to get rid of the infection. Each animal was tested twice in a week. It became compulsory in 1950 and this cattle test and slaughter policy remains the main control for bovine TB.
How are Badgers implicated?
1971 TB was found in badgers for the first time when bTB had been eliminated in
cattle by rigorous testing and slaughter regime over most of the UK, but remained in a few areas in the South West. A badger culling trial around Thornbury (Nr.Bristol), Hartland Devon) and Steeple Leaze (Dorset) proved that badgers were spreading TB.

1975-1981 In heavily infected areas, in the South West, bTB was cleared by culling both infected cattle and infected badgers.

Early 1980s bTB was almost eradicated from the UK. Only 100 new outbreaks were being recorded and in 1984 only 400 cattle were slaughtered.

1981 The Zuckerman Report stated that badgers were a source of TB and culling was necessary. However, gassing in the sett (underground home) with cyanide, then used, was banned as it was thought to be inhumane. Many experts believe that if gassing been allowed for two more years bTB would have been eradicated. Many more badgers have been infected with bTB since gassing stopped, and they suffer a slow, painful and distressing death.”

“I do not wish to discuss the problem with you as you have obviously not researched the M.tuberculosis genus of bacteria anywhere near enough, and you are now clearly putting out mis-information.

"and the reason it was stopped is due to TB being virtually eradicated and thus it was a waste of funds." . . RUBBISH.

It is weakening and less efficient and only useful for young children now also it is not used in the United States because it may cause a tuberculin skin test to convert from negative to positive. This can be confusing because the TB skin test is the best available test for TB infection, and widespread use of BCG would make the skin test less useful.

It's far too complex a subject for this sort of forum and there's been far too much nonsense put out about the BCG by the Badger Trust for far too long already.

That's why we have this problem.”

“Indeed apart from the cull and with respect to thinking and expression opinions, the world would probably be a better place if it was run with intelligence and with sufficient thought and research, and a richer place for having polite people expressing opinions.

I myself would prefer to have a discussion with people who actually type sentences not just post references to news articles which would not even get a single mark in a research project where yuo had to write an essay expression your opinion and ideas based on fact....”

“I actually know a lot about BTB as I recently completed a dissertation on it. I had not come across that article but you should never take an article in the press as fact and read the science; indeed the BCG is MUCH more effective in childhood, and the reason it was stopped is due to TB being virtually eradicated and thus it was a waste of funds.

Everything I have said on here is fact verified by leading experts in farming, science, badger culls (people who have taken part in all the cull trials since the 1970s have given talks recently which I can see you were not at) or said by DEFRA, farmers or the government.

None of these people want cows to have BTB but even farmers (one was brave enough to speak out at the rally that he was against culling) and claimed simple measures such as putting cow drinking troughs out of reach of badgers would be potentially more effective than a cull in stopping any .

I am not against culling badgers and I have actually bothered to do research and even if it turns out the badger vaccination programme does not work, and neither does the cull, at least we are trying things to solve the problem.

I wish people on here wishing to express 'facts' and opinions would get themselves informed. How many of you went to the rally...it wasn't so much a protest as an information giving session during which an MP, a farmer, head of RSPCA and Brian May all gave informed talks.

If all the scientists are wrong then there must be a massive conspiracy; the government themselves have not said the cull is scientifically based and that is is an EXPERIMENT thus no-one knows if it will work, but previous culls have been shown to make TB worse in cattle, or have a temporary benefit.

With badger culling what we are looking at is culling ad infinitum.

Badger culling trials will cost close to 10million, which is basically about a whole county. Add it up over the whole country for 9 years and you have over 100 million per year spent on culling, assuming free shooting and not cage trapping is used. During this time, IF TB falls, so what because farmers will still have to spend the same amount on tests and they will still have to cull cattle.

The protracted benefit of the cull is a maximum of 16%, so imagine it will save farmers 16 million a year. There will still remain the problem of TB and in total, including the cost of culling which will exceed that which TB costs farmers today.

This is why people are worried the cull will be ineffective and waste money and time. It is not a case of cuddly badgers vs farmers but a real fight to try to get a long term cost effective solution to BTB.

If we do need to develop a new vaccine that does not mean vaccination is not the answer; we'd be better getting on with it and changing the law so it can be used so all farmers need to do is a simple injection to each calf and in the long run, there will be no more need for culling cattle, TB tests or indeed badger culls.

Charlespeck I reply in general to comments because other people read them not just you, and i have to say i genuinely feel that the only reason you'd say I should be prosecuted is to get a reaction from me....do you genuinely believe that all the people who express things you do not like should be prosecuted? I think you should get on with reading more than a couple of things and learn not just argue against me for the mere sake of it.

The world is not a dangerous place with people like me who actually think and dare to express an opinion. What a ridiculous idea to suggest that someone who is legally free to express fact and opinion in a peaceful manner should be prosecuted, indeed, it would be hard to pin a charge on someone like you who expresses an opinion rudely. Even the people in charge of our country express wrong opinions and do not get prosecuted...”

“Mycobacterium bovis is not a great problem yet to any except farmers and those who have and and have to work with any vulnerable animals.

But when it does become one, we won't be able to just switch it off.

http://tinyurl.com/bt8cjjn”

“@BattyKiri Tuesday, September 11 2012, 11:11PM

People like you are a danger to all mankind world wide because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

People like you should be prosecuted IMO. Just letting M.bovis go on increasing exponentially in the wild, is not and has never been an option.

"Expert says BCG might not be enough to stop TB in Britain."

http://tinyurl.com/83xps4g (open in a new window)

http://tinyurl.com/8a7bwy9 (open in a new window)

"Molecular typing of Mycobacterium bovis isolates in Argentina: first description of a person-to-person transmission case."

http://tinyurl.com/bwxembw (open in a new window)”

“There is nothing wrong with the BCG vaccination...people have stopped using it here largely as TB is pretty much eradicated in the UK human population. In fact in South Africa, for example, there is a government drive to encourage vaccination due to the high rate of HIV people with HIVcan be vaccinated, but it remains the leading killer of HIV positive people in South Africa.

The vaccine will work on cubs too...the cubs are only underground from earliest Jan to latest June, hence the fact the badger cull is only allowed during autumn/ winter as it is considered inhumane to cull mothers and leave their dependant young to die slowly. The young are out there now to be shot or vccinated as they are every year; badgers only have one litter a year!

The vaccine won't eliminate TB in badgers with it indeed and may take a few years for those to die (generally not from TB even though they have it) but have you noticed how long the cull is going to take? 4 years pilot, which costs a total of 10 million est ignorance is unworka per year, then being rolled out across the whole of England, which considering we are covering about a county in total with 'trial' culls then the cost of the cull will be more than that of TB to farmers (well certainly a significant amount).

If badgers really are a significant vector of TB to cows (so far only circumstantial evidence exists) then the only solution would be total extermination of badgers. As someone who has tried culling invasive rats on an island a couple of hectares in size to protect endemic birds, I can tell you it is impossible even with year round trapping.

It is safe and practical to vaccinate cows, since when do the government do anything 'sensible and practical' years ago? It generally takes them years to decide anything and yet longer to implement it.

It is very easy to vaccinate badgers in the wild; cage trapping, just as plan B of the cull will work. There are trained teams out there vaccinating badgers as we speak.

It is perfectly fine to vaccinate an animal with a disease, when babies and young children have vaccinations they are not tested first are they? Vaccination is not going to make TB worse in an infected animal and may enhance immunity thus reducing infection, though that is speculation.

BCG vaccine is very easy and quick to make and there is no way it would take away supplies from children in Africa or our population, that is just a myth started by people who seem to want to create barriers to potential solutions and an indication of public misunderstanding of science.

I think there are many ways to control BTB, apart from culling badgers, which may have a small effect, we also have vaccinating badgers, vaccinating cows (once this has been made legal), better bio-security and better testing (a new more effective test could be on the market this year).

There no scientific evidence a badger cull will decrease BTB, in fact if you will remember, the cull in Wales which didn't go ahead was supposed to be an EXPERIMENT to test it. Why do you think we have trial areas not a nationwide cull? It's an experiment which many fear will end up costing millions and end with no solution.

The good thing about anti-cull protesters is they aren't just stood there waving banners and saying 'don't kill the cute fluffy badgers' they are suggesting practical and potentially cheaper ways to control BTB. If we go with culling millions will be spent continuing to cull as it will be a never ending process, and farmers will still have to pay for TB testing throughout.

@ lolly60 I'd love to know how you can decisively state what scientists have been unable to prove with 30 years of badger culling?

@Jonnyfandango Badger culling, if the trial proves successful will be nationwide and it affects anyone who cares about where out tax goes, farming and the welfare of our wildlife.

I wish people were informed about things as opinion is one thing but total ignorance... :(”